Hmm. I should think about this some more, but I don't think I agree with you. (About the use of the word "hateful." I do basically agree with you on gay marriage, as far as I know your position.)
[I feel like I'm about to have a tone argument. I also think you invited it with this post. If I'm wrong, feel free to let me know.]
I mean, philosophically, I can see your point. It's even a good one, and you've expressed it well. But in the practical world of people arguing with one another, trying to influence one another's behavior, calling someone "hateful" when they don't perceive themselves so is probably going to have similar results to them calling you "sinful." It shuts down the conversation, reinforces them in their opinion, makes them less likely to listen to yours.
I think your strongest point here is about how the behavior of right-wing Christians toward gays is harmful, and if I were going to make a suggestion (which apparently I am) it would be to stick with that language. That way you're talking about yourself and your own experience: "I am being harmed, in these ways, by your actions." It's hard for them to argue that you aren't being harmed - at best, they can say you deserve to be harmed, or you're harming yourself, and that isn't very persuasive. When you argue that their harmful behavior implies hateful feelings, you're now talking about them. That's where I think your argument isn't very persuasive, even if it is philosophically justified.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
branchandroot
(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-02 05:47 pm (UTC)[I feel like I'm about to have a tone argument. I also think you invited it with this post. If I'm wrong, feel free to let me know.]
I mean, philosophically, I can see your point. It's even a good one, and you've expressed it well. But in the practical world of people arguing with one another, trying to influence one another's behavior, calling someone "hateful" when they don't perceive themselves so is probably going to have similar results to them calling you "sinful." It shuts down the conversation, reinforces them in their opinion, makes them less likely to listen to yours.
I think your strongest point here is about how the behavior of right-wing Christians toward gays is harmful, and if I were going to make a suggestion (which apparently I am) it would be to stick with that language. That way you're talking about yourself and your own experience: "I am being harmed, in these ways, by your actions." It's hard for them to argue that you aren't being harmed - at best, they can say you deserve to be harmed, or you're harming yourself, and that isn't very persuasive. When you argue that their harmful behavior implies hateful feelings, you're now talking about them. That's where I think your argument isn't very persuasive, even if it is philosophically justified.