Feminist slash hunt!
Apr. 5th, 2008 04:22 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gaudiorSo, a little while ago, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
teenybuffalo posted the following link. It leads to an essay arguing that slash is anti-feminist. I disliked the essay in general-- I found the author, Dissenter's, sarcasm obnoxious, and I was very unimpressed with her disabling all comments except from people with whom she agreed.* But I think that it did make a number of interesting arguments. For one, she suggested that slash makes explicit the homosocial bonds between men which are normally kept from being overtly sexual, and that it does this because women are buying into the idea that only men can be interesting and worthy of a relationship with each other. This is a point which needs a lot of thinking about.
Having thought about it, I agree that it's problematic that the majority of interesting characters in these genres are male, and I really appreciate shows with more strong, interesting, well-developed female characters**. But I'm not convinced that one should throw out the baby of all sf/fantasy/anime with the bathwater of sexism. At one point in the essay, Dissenter suggests that such authors as Tolkien and Joss Whedon*** have a "primary goal to bolster patriarchy and male supremacy in all its ugly forms." I disagree. Unfortunately, I think Tolkien wasn't even vaguely thinking about patriarchy and male supremacy, or their opposites. I think he was writing a story about war and loss and power and mortality, and that he was living too thoroughly in a male-dominated world to even notice that his treatment of gender might affect anything. And while I might wish that he'd been self-aware enough to question his culture's views on sex and gender, I don't believe that that invalidates what he did, which was to write a very good story. A lot of people disagree with me about a lot of things, and that doesn't make their fiction valueless. It means that I should be aware that Tolkien has views on gender with which I disagree, and that I see this as a flaw in the work, but it doesn't mean that he didn't do anything worthwhile.
And so one argument I can make to this charge that slash supports the idea that only men are fully human enough to have relationships with is that by making these men homosexual, slash undermines that idea of masculinity. Unless one assumes that penis=automatically abusive and evil, one must see most of the problems with the current state of affairs between the genders as being a result of a social construction. In which case, something which questions and breaks down that social construction is helpful. I would argue that slash portraying these characters as focusing on relationships, emotionally vulnerable, and not heterosexual, means that they cease to fit the patriarchal vision of "men." Instead, they are reconstructed as more multidimensional, and more fully human. I see this as a sometimes-unconscious action by women who are trying to rewrite the tropes, who are trying to claim and recreate something which has given them no space, and I see it as awesome.
More importantly, I think that any generalization about slash and why people write it is just that-- a generalization. So exceptions can be found to it, because we're talking about human creativity, and that's all about exceptions. What Dissenter has pointed out, I feel, is not the flaws in slash, but the flaws inbad slash. She's right that, in badly-written slash, you do find a fair number of things like weepy "feminized" non-consenting bottoms, bitchy or nonexistant female characters, etc, and she's right that these things are problematic. But I think her mistake is in assuming that these are features of all slash.
So... I've come up with a rating system, based loosely on her essay, of "how feminist your slash is." Because I believe that we can find a whole lot of stories which subvert the patriarchy in all kinds of fun ways.****
So: The Feminist Slash-Rating Scale
Give the story one point each if:
*the pairing do not fall into easily-visible "top/bottom=masculine/feminine" roles. Especially if they don't have a clear top and bottom.
*the female characters are fully-developed, admirable and three-dimensional, not "vapid, stupid, cold, calculating, grasping, unfairly demanding, physically disgusting, and generally lacking in any desire at all except for an overwhelming need to get married and have children."
*the female characters have sex drives, and are in no way condemned for this
*the sex is chosen and enjoyed by both/all parties, not forced on the bottom by the top.
*the characters actually deal with homophobia or the other social consequences of homosexuality in their context
*the characters think deeply about what this relationship means for their sexual and/or gender identities.
*the primary pairing is femmeslash (and is about the characters as people, not just for lezbeyun pr0n).
*the characters are actually canonically gay.
*the original source was written by a woman.
*the author plays with the characters' gender(s) in an interesting way (i.e., doing something other than simply recreating a heterosexual relationship).
*the characters raise a child together (without one of them simply being rewritten to take on the traditional feminine/mother role).****
Two points if the author is consciously addressing and playing with any of the issues raised by the above.
My own fic, Mercy of the Fallen, only scores a 5 or 6, depending on your interpretation of cannon. I thinkaskerian's Teamworkverse gets a 6. The Sith Academygets 10 points, muchly because it gets a number of two-pointers because of its parodic playing with genre. E.E. Beck's extremely brilliant Vorkosigan fics, A Deeper Season and What Passing Bells****** together score 8 without any playing with genre at all, just because it's that good.
...but I'm actually surprised to realize that the fics I like aren't scoring higher. Hm. Can anyone find something that scores a perfect 11, or better? Does such a fic exist? If not, can people find other fics that score high (or, conversely, explain to me ways that the scale's no good)?
Yay, feminism.
--R
* because, in her words, "Clearly I am not in agreement with those who think slash is radical/progressive/feminist. Clearly, those who do think slash is radical/progressive/feminist are not in agreement with me. Going around in endless circles about whether it is or it isn’t does not, in my book, constitute a constructive or informative discussion." I find her dismissal of the idea that anyone (including her) might have logical or persuasive arguments, and might have something to teach each other... problematic.
** New Battlestar Galactica this week! YAAAYYY!!! Starbuck and President Roslin and SQUEE!!!
***I cannot overemphasize how strongly I disagree with the idea that Buffy the Vampire Slayer is not feminist.
****And besides, I'm almost done with my dissertation, and I want recs! Now!
****I'm not including two of Dissenter's criteria-- a slash pairing breaking up to marry women, and authors who defensively insist on their own heterosexuality and get very upset if anyone mistakes them for a lesbian-- because I've never seen them. I'm sure they exist, but not in the slash I read. Have other people seen these things?
*****I'd been planning to rec these anyway, because they are SO GOOD. Seriously, it felt like getting a new Vorkosigan book, and I've really been missing those. It's Miles/Gregor slash, but it works.
teenybuffalo posted the following link. It leads to an essay arguing that slash is anti-feminist. I disliked the essay in general-- I found the author, Dissenter's, sarcasm obnoxious, and I was very unimpressed with her disabling all comments except from people with whom she agreed.* But I think that it did make a number of interesting arguments. For one, she suggested that slash makes explicit the homosocial bonds between men which are normally kept from being overtly sexual, and that it does this because women are buying into the idea that only men can be interesting and worthy of a relationship with each other. This is a point which needs a lot of thinking about. Having thought about it, I agree that it's problematic that the majority of interesting characters in these genres are male, and I really appreciate shows with more strong, interesting, well-developed female characters**. But I'm not convinced that one should throw out the baby of all sf/fantasy/anime with the bathwater of sexism. At one point in the essay, Dissenter suggests that such authors as Tolkien and Joss Whedon*** have a "primary goal to bolster patriarchy and male supremacy in all its ugly forms." I disagree. Unfortunately, I think Tolkien wasn't even vaguely thinking about patriarchy and male supremacy, or their opposites. I think he was writing a story about war and loss and power and mortality, and that he was living too thoroughly in a male-dominated world to even notice that his treatment of gender might affect anything. And while I might wish that he'd been self-aware enough to question his culture's views on sex and gender, I don't believe that that invalidates what he did, which was to write a very good story. A lot of people disagree with me about a lot of things, and that doesn't make their fiction valueless. It means that I should be aware that Tolkien has views on gender with which I disagree, and that I see this as a flaw in the work, but it doesn't mean that he didn't do anything worthwhile.
And so one argument I can make to this charge that slash supports the idea that only men are fully human enough to have relationships with is that by making these men homosexual, slash undermines that idea of masculinity. Unless one assumes that penis=automatically abusive and evil, one must see most of the problems with the current state of affairs between the genders as being a result of a social construction. In which case, something which questions and breaks down that social construction is helpful. I would argue that slash portraying these characters as focusing on relationships, emotionally vulnerable, and not heterosexual, means that they cease to fit the patriarchal vision of "men." Instead, they are reconstructed as more multidimensional, and more fully human. I see this as a sometimes-unconscious action by women who are trying to rewrite the tropes, who are trying to claim and recreate something which has given them no space, and I see it as awesome.
More importantly, I think that any generalization about slash and why people write it is just that-- a generalization. So exceptions can be found to it, because we're talking about human creativity, and that's all about exceptions. What Dissenter has pointed out, I feel, is not the flaws in slash, but the flaws inbad slash. She's right that, in badly-written slash, you do find a fair number of things like weepy "feminized" non-consenting bottoms, bitchy or nonexistant female characters, etc, and she's right that these things are problematic. But I think her mistake is in assuming that these are features of all slash.
So... I've come up with a rating system, based loosely on her essay, of "how feminist your slash is." Because I believe that we can find a whole lot of stories which subvert the patriarchy in all kinds of fun ways.****
So: The Feminist Slash-Rating Scale
Give the story one point each if:
*the pairing do not fall into easily-visible "top/bottom=masculine/feminine" roles. Especially if they don't have a clear top and bottom.
*the female characters are fully-developed, admirable and three-dimensional, not "vapid, stupid, cold, calculating, grasping, unfairly demanding, physically disgusting, and generally lacking in any desire at all except for an overwhelming need to get married and have children."
*the female characters have sex drives, and are in no way condemned for this
*the sex is chosen and enjoyed by both/all parties, not forced on the bottom by the top.
*the characters actually deal with homophobia or the other social consequences of homosexuality in their context
*the characters think deeply about what this relationship means for their sexual and/or gender identities.
*the primary pairing is femmeslash (and is about the characters as people, not just for lezbeyun pr0n).
*the characters are actually canonically gay.
*the original source was written by a woman.
*the author plays with the characters' gender(s) in an interesting way (i.e., doing something other than simply recreating a heterosexual relationship).
*the characters raise a child together (without one of them simply being rewritten to take on the traditional feminine/mother role).****
Two points if the author is consciously addressing and playing with any of the issues raised by the above.
My own fic, Mercy of the Fallen, only scores a 5 or 6, depending on your interpretation of cannon. I think
askerian's Teamworkverse gets a 6. The Sith Academygets 10 points, muchly because it gets a number of two-pointers because of its parodic playing with genre. E.E. Beck's extremely brilliant Vorkosigan fics, A Deeper Season and What Passing Bells****** together score 8 without any playing with genre at all, just because it's that good....but I'm actually surprised to realize that the fics I like aren't scoring higher. Hm. Can anyone find something that scores a perfect 11, or better? Does such a fic exist? If not, can people find other fics that score high (or, conversely, explain to me ways that the scale's no good)?
Yay, feminism.
--R
* because, in her words, "Clearly I am not in agreement with those who think slash is radical/progressive/feminist. Clearly, those who do think slash is radical/progressive/feminist are not in agreement with me. Going around in endless circles about whether it is or it isn’t does not, in my book, constitute a constructive or informative discussion." I find her dismissal of the idea that anyone (including her) might have logical or persuasive arguments, and might have something to teach each other... problematic.
** New Battlestar Galactica this week! YAAAYYY!!! Starbuck and President Roslin and SQUEE!!!
***I cannot overemphasize how strongly I disagree with the idea that Buffy the Vampire Slayer is not feminist.
****And besides, I'm almost done with my dissertation, and I want recs! Now!
****I'm not including two of Dissenter's criteria-- a slash pairing breaking up to marry women, and authors who defensively insist on their own heterosexuality and get very upset if anyone mistakes them for a lesbian-- because I've never seen them. I'm sure they exist, but not in the slash I read. Have other people seen these things?
*****I'd been planning to rec these anyway, because they are SO GOOD. Seriously, it felt like getting a new Vorkosigan book, and I've really been missing those. It's Miles/Gregor slash, but it works.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-06 06:06 pm (UTC)Best bets right now are Pierce's Circle of Magic books and Lackey's Valdemar books.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-06 06:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-06 06:36 pm (UTC)I like your rubric! *goes off to ponder*
haven't fully read this essay yet, but...
Date: 2008-04-07 03:56 am (UTC)I haven't to date read any arguments saying that he is not feminist, but to any who would play this off as a cover, I would say that only people with no real life have time for that sort of duplicitous bullshit.
Re: haven't fully read this essay yet, but...
Date: 2008-04-19 01:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-19 01:59 pm (UTC)See, that's brilliant. Mind if I quote?
I think about this a lot, although I hadn't been able to put it so clearly into words, because I think it's true of many works of literature which are condemned for being sexist, racist, heterocentrist, etc. Of course, while this works as an explanation for individual works, it doesn't change the fact that, for example, science fiction began as a distinctly sexist genre. One runs up against the question of whether being sexist/racist by default (because it is deeply ingrained in one's culture) still counts as being sexist/racist. I think it's worth making a distinction between active dislike of a race/gender/orientation and the more common, but no less hurtful, "insult by omission/ignorance" sort of -isms.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-22 06:53 pm (UTC)Go for it, and thanks! Don't leave out the context, though-- I do think it's a problem that he was living in that male-dominated (and racist, and heterocentrist) world, and I do think it's a flaw in the work. I just don't think it's a good idea to completely dismiss him out of hand because of it.
Glad you enjoyed.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-26 03:51 am (UTC)Благодарю за блог
Date: 2012-01-30 06:35 pm (UTC)Отличный блог!
Date: 2012-02-17 01:40 am (UTC)