So much internets!

[gaudior]

And so much of me should-be-writing-a-paper. But I wanted to repost a few things, mostly in reaction to the Open-Source Boob Project kerfluffle. For those who don't know about it, this all started when a guy named theferrett and a few of his friends had one of those cool moments that happen among friends sometimes, where you all let down your boundaries around physical intimacy and engage in a whole lot of mutual groping without any real sexual intent, just to enjoy each other's bodies. Which is, in my opinion, fine. The problem was that, being fans at a con, they said, "This is awesome! Let's get lots of other people to join in!" So they propositioned some random passers-by, who didn't object very loudly, and they decided they should make it a meme. They started wearing buttons announcing their participation in this "project," which basically said that anyone passing by could ask a person wearing the button whether the passerby could grope the button-wearer, without insult. There was a focus on breasts (see the name), but when asked, the people involved said that many types of touch were permitted, including grabbing guys' asses and chests (though not balls), by people of both sexes toward people of both sexes.

The major difficulty with this, in my opinion, is that it would have worked nicely in a culture which does not have a long tradition of violence against women, women's bodies being seen as property for the taking, women being pressured through a variety of means to see their bodies as property for the taking, and women's sole route to power of any kind being through the use and sale of their bodies. However, we don't live in a culture like that. And a lot of the discourse in the (1300 comment long!) thread was around theferrett and his friends saying, "No, I don't want to live in this kind of culture. So we don't! And you're all just being silly," and a lot of people saying "..." Only with lots more eloquence.

I recommend the comment thread, as it has a lot of interesting discussion, and only a few trolls.

Here, though, I'm posting two things. One is my comment, which is also up on theferrett's journal, but buried on the fifth page of comments, and I liked it, so I'm reproducing it here:

So, on the one hand, I'd disagree with people who are seeing theferrett and his friends as having done a Very Bad Thing. Everyone's descriptions make it sound like this was a genuine attempt, by a bunch of friends, to try for a moment to live in a world in which touch and sexuality don't have the baggage of fear and patriarchy that they carry in the rest of our lives. And that's a cool idea.

But there's something I've noticed in the entry and these comments which puts me firmly in the "the way this is being discussed is pretty damn objectifying" camp.

So, I don't know about anyone else, but my breasts are erogenous zones, chock-full of nerve endings. If someone is touching my breasts, one of two things is happening. Either a) I'm turned on, or b) I'm dissociating, trying hard not to be present and aware of the sensation and its impact on me. I don't have a trauma history, but I do have times (at the doctor, say) when I'm trying to be as unaware as possible of what's going on in my body, because it feels emotionally uncomfortable.

Now, a number of women have talked about being involved in this event, and, in the comments I've read so far, none of them have talked about feeling aroused. Instead, they say things like what zoethe said several threads upstream: "I felt empowered by the ability to say, 'Yes, I can choose to share my bounty with others.'" The focus is not on the women's physical sexual pleasure. It's on their pleasure at being able to have their bodies appreciated by someone else. ewin said it even more clearly: "I really dig on the idea of letting as many folks as possible appreciate these boobs before they droop, you know? They have a lot of pep left in them, and they're just SITTING there right now, doing nothing. It's a shame." That statement makes it sound like ewin doesn't see her breasts as being there for her pleasure except as someone else might enjoy them.

Now, I can see two possible reasons for this. One is that the women were sexually aroused by all of this, and didn't want to say so-- because that is embarrassing, intimate, and/or forbidden by the traditional view of women which forbids us from seeking sexual satisfaction for our own sake, not someone else's. But the other possible reason is that people actually weren't aroused, because they were dissociated from what they were experiencing physically, because they really were doing this only as breasts to be appreciated.

I wasn't there, so I don't know what it felt like from the inside. But I know that I'd feel a lot more comfortable with this idea if the women involved were saying "I enjoyed this because free petting feels really good!" rather than "I enjoyed this because it's nice to have my assets appreciated."



The other thing I want to re-post is, yes, a meme, but also a vow I'm taking seriously. And want it to spread. Because this is the point where talking on the internet turns into real action, that can cause real change.

The Open-Source Women-Backing-Each-Other-Up Campaign

Here's my pledge: if I see somebody groping you in public, and you're not moaning Yes! Yes! Yes!, I will break through your Somebody Else's Problem invisibility field and come over and ask if you're okay. If your situation looks dangerous enough I can't help on my own, I will call over friends or, if it's a situation in which I think the cops would be on your side, I will call the cops. If you're being harassed by a guy*, you can say so to me, even if you don't know me. I pledge I will distract him so you can get away, or I will tell him that he needs to leave, or whatever I can do to the best of my ability. I pledge that yes, actually, because you are a woman I will give you the benefit of the doubt. If you tell me that a guy just did something shitty to you I will not refuse to look at any evidence and tell you that I know him and he's a great guy and you must have been imagining things. I have great loyalty to my male friends but I will not allow that to blind me to the fact that none of us are saints and even my best friends can screw up and may need to be called on it. I pledge that I will walk you to your car if you don't feel safe walking alone at night, and then you can drive me to mine.

Yes, even at Wiscon. I pledge that even if I don't know you, if there is a creepy guy following you around, you can say so, and I will not say to you go hide in your room; I will say to him go find another party, or if necessary, go home. I will come with you if you need to talk to the con organizers. I will not make you feel like your right to control over your own body is not a big deal.

And I will do this whether or not I like you, or even know you. It's not about liking you. It's about the fact that we need to back each other up, and I will need you to do this for me some day.

--R

*Or a girl. Despite the statistics, men do not have a monopoly on sexual aggression.

Comments

[ryenna.livejournal.com]

I'm trying really really hard not to work up to a magnificent froth about the whole thing, mainly because I deal with enough idiocy in person on a daily basis. I need to save my froth for work.

That being said, from what I've read (unfunnybusiness over on JournalFen has a good post for aggregating response posts) it seems like dude really just Doesn't Get It. I've read his most recent update and he still seems clueless in some places. But then, so do a lot of people. I've given up hope.

So here, have the Boob of Death.

[gaudior.livejournal.com]

Yay, boob of death!

And I think I like this idea of taking action better than froth. I don't see much point in arguing with theferrett-- I think he likes it too much. But trying to stop harassment when I see it? That seems awesome.

In conclusion, boob of death!

[foleyartist1.livejournal.com]

Actually, the addendum he published on the top of his post after he froze comments seems fairly sane. Not saying I necessarily agree with his perspective either then or now, but based on my ADMITTEDLY ABBREVIATED perusal of the comments and his final post addendum, I think it would be inaccurate to say that arguing with him was completely without effect on him. Just to point that out.

That said, taking action to stop harassment is exponentially more awesome than any other reaction to the situation, so, me too.

[gaudior.livejournal.com]

Yeah, good point. He did retract that nicely, and I think that he's certainly learned something from this, although I'm not sure exactly what. Like I said, I don't think he's entirely a bad guy, or that the original impulse was all that terrible-- just that he spent a long time not understanding the context of sexuality and safety for women in this culture a lot of the time.

Okay, I take it back. But I'm definitely going with talk=better than action.

[ryenna.livejournal.com]

I definitely like taking action, but it's also so sad that we need to go out of our ways to make it clear that we WILL take action.

[angstnokami.livejournal.com]

What I'm noticing about this whole, as you put it well, kerfluffle is that everyone I've seen post about it so far has been female, and everyone I've seen post about it so far has wavered dangerously on the line of saying "Since women are often abused by men, no situation should be allowed in which it is possible for women to be abused by men." And that just...no. Because when you say that a woman in the latter situation is saying no on the inside even though she isn't saying no on the outside, that takes away her right to speak for herself just as does saying that a woman in the former situation means yes even though she's saying no.

Yes, we as HUMANS should back her up if she's saying no. But we do not have the right to tell her that she really means no because we think she's saying yes for the wrong reasons.

[gaudior.livejournal.com]

But we do not have the right to tell her that she really means no because we think she's saying yes for the wrong reasons.

Oh, I agree. That's why, if I go up to someone who looks like they're being hassled and say, "Are you okay?" and they say, "Yeah, I'm fine," I'll go away. Because that, for me, is where the balance tips. I can still see a possibility that someone might say they were okay when they really weren't, but I'm going to respect their word on it.

But along the same lines, I would infinitely rather have someone come up and offer help when I don't need it than for nobody to offer help when I do. The former can be set right in about three seconds, no hard feelings on either side. The latter can't.

[breadandroses.livejournal.com]

i think creating the atmosphere the project talks about, with people around visibly indicating support and willingness to be backup, could have the effect of making people comfortable about saying no who would otherwise feel pressured into participating.

I think the Portly Dyke link above(yes,yes,yes) about the idea of consent vs. enthusiasm is really relevant here too. We wouldn't have to worry about people saying yes and meaning no if a bare minimum of consent wasn't all that was required. Not so much an action idea at the moment as something to consider.

[seishonagon.livejournal.com]

But along the same lines, I would infinitely rather have someone come up and offer help when I don't need it than for nobody to offer help when I do. The former can be set right in about three seconds, no hard feelings on either side. The latter can't.

Like I told my kids today about a different topic (school bullying, and whether to talk to an adult when they see something that might be bullying), all you have to do is ask yourself whether everyone involved can afford for you to be wrong. You see a woman, and she's being groped. Can you (and she) afford the consequences if you ask her if she's okay, and be wrong? Yeah. There might be a little embarrassment involved, but that's it. Can you (and she) afford the consequences if you walk away and she needed help? Clearly no. Which way would you rather be wrong? I think it's an easy answer, intellectually.

Of course, in practice, it's very different. And it's not because people are horrible, it's because people are scared of a lot of things. And it shouldn't be that way, but if it weren't, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

[foleyartist1.livejournal.com]

Word.

[rax.livejournal.com]

I'm in agreement with most of what you say (though I think I am less
OK with the initial occurrence; had I been there I would have been
sufficiently uncomfortable as to just go home). I like the idea of
responding with action as you are recommending (both personally and by
proxy). There has been at least one situation where, had someone done
that for me, I would have avoided a very bad outcome; I expect that
the same is true for many people as well. Thank you for sharing it.

[seishonagon.livejournal.com]

Your response to the whole aptly-termed kerfluffle is awesome. I don't think I would be as comfortable with actually being around said activity, but I can totally respect the idea that having a consenting free-touch zone is an interesting idea, under the right circumstances. Which I think a con of any kind is most decidedly not.

I think a lot of people are simply responding with knee-jerk reactions - and given the reasons for said reactions, and the emotions and experiences for said reactions, I don't in the slightest fault the people who have them - but I think it's interesting to see this issue framed by someone who has much less ingrained fear than a lot of the people responding, and also from someone who (at least it seems to me) has had a lot fewer bitter experiences with cons and fandom and geekdom in general. And like I said, I don't fault those who have the fear or the bitterness (hell, I have both, though particularly the bitterness, myself). I just think your perspective is a valuable one. And I think the level to which you manage to be calm about this is an important thing as well. It's easy to get frothed up and freaked out (which I also did initially) by this kind of thing, and I just want to say how awesome it is that you didn't, and that you shared that.

Oh, and I've swiped the meme, though I changed Wiscon to Otakon, because I've never been to Wiscon and am not particularly likely to.

Good day very cool site.

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